'WISH YOU WERE HERE': overrated?

[Grand Vizier]

Okay, oaky...before I get attacked by all, please hear me out!
Yes, I know that the album was almost as huge as its predecessor and still is a 'fan' favourite (especially for those 'fans' who don't know of the existence of any other Floyd albums). But IMHO, there's very little about the album that allows us to regard it on the same level:

'Shine On You Crazy Diamond' - the first parts of the song might be one of the most evident epitomes of 'gorgeous beauty' in rock: Gilmour's calculated, but nevertheless inspired guitar notes playing over the moody synth backing perfectly convey the feeling of majesty, sadness and inescapable tragedy that the song's all about. However, the song ends in a rather feeble saxophone solo, and then off we go into loads of moody and atmospheric garbage.
Honestly, I don't know how anybody can love 'Welcome To The Machine' and 'Have A Cigar', two of Waters' worst anti-establishment anthems. The whole song is built on dirty electronic gadgets that totally eliminate any therapeutic feelings you could have generated during 'Shine On'.
As for 'Have A Cigar' that's sung by Roy Harper because Dave didn't want to sing it since he didn't like the lyrics (he had a point, too), it's probably okay by any average band standards, but consider it a Pink Floyd highlight? It's just a mid-tempo bluesy tune with nothing that stands out - just your standard rhythm, drums and singing. Kinda like the Gilmour-sung part of 'Time', only weaker because Harper just isn't that expressive, and the lyrics kinda suck.
That leaves us with 'Wish You Were Here' which is also gruesomely overrated as a song. I used to think this was my all-time fave Floyd song when I was younger – but time has a great way of making you look at things differently as you get older. Yes, it's good, but how come it deserves its reputation of one of Floyd's best songs? I could name at least four or five early Waters acoustic tunes that aren't any worse! Maybe it's because of the pretentious lyrics?
Finally, we reprise 'Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Pt 2', and the final parts are also much weaker than the intro.
I mean, c'mon, it ain't an unworthy album. But there's an interesting thing that you may discover if you listen to all Floyd albums in chronological order: Wish You Were Here is the first album that shows genuine signs of 'regression', in the sense of 'going backwards', not necessarily 'worsening'. They reached their zenith on Dark Side Of The Moon and just couldn't go any further: neither Gilmour nor Wright were able to contribute many new musical or conceptual ideas. So this album, wrought and produced with so much pain and tension over the course of two years, is a stalemate. Curiously enough, it's much more close in sound to Meddle than to anything after it:
1 - the main theme of 'Shine On' creates the same mood and has almost the same melody as the main theme on 'Echoes'
2 – 'Have A Cigar' sounds just like the part I called 'boring blues jam' on same 'Echoes'
3 – 'Shine On, pt VI' recreates the bass thumping and dentistry soloing of 'One Of These Days';
4 - isn't it possible to trace 'Wish You Were Here' to some of the folkish songs on that one, like 'Fearless'? Yep. I think it is...

CONCLUSION:
Wish You Were Here is but a slightly more sophisticated re-write of Meddle with a lot less innovation (if any) and a lot more pretentiousness and preachiness. A bizarre collection of aimless jams interspersed with revelational moments of beauty on occasion.

(**Have you ever wondered why this was the last album with any significant contributions by Gilmour and Wright, with Roger stepping in and taking full control over everything after that? No? Because they were exhausted. If Roger had been able to gain total control over the band five years earlier, he'd have done that. He wasn't, because there were lots of ideas in these two pots. This album amply demonstrates that Roger was the only guy with something left to say…

[mad yannis]

OK, Mr genius, can you explain to us why you posted the same (questionable) review already posted by another user of this forum?

See http://www.pinkfloydfan.net/showthre...pagenum ber=9

Actually I think both of you are very good at coyandpaste.


Cheers.

[Dr Cheese]

Curious, parts of the "review" are word for word, well spotted Sherlock, I mean yannis.

[Grand Vizier]

Originally posted by mad yannis
OK, Mr genius, can you explain to us why you posted the same (questionable) review already posted by another user of this forum?

Cheers.

Cut-and-Paste aside , I guess cos no-one took up the debate I suppose...just curious to hear Floyd-Fans' views.

[Not Now John]

Gilmour and Wright contributed plenty to Animals. Your a bit of a wanker.

[Madcap Laughs]

Definitely not! WYWH is Floyd's best album.

[Hicks]

Just opinions, many ppl think Meddle, DSOTM and WYWH (especially the last 2) are overrated, and that is my thought too:

PF masterpiece: The Piper

PF almost masterpieces: ASoS, Animals, The Wall

PF inspired/interesting albums: AHM, Ummagumma,

PF commercial, but inspired: Meddle, DSOTM, WYWH

PF commercial: AMLOR, TDB

[jetsfan4ever80]

Waters liked WYWH more than he did DSOTM, he felt that DSOTM aimed to much at lyrics, and was not for the music, when he made WYWH, he though that it was more for the music. I personally think that WYWH was a great album, and i don't think u can say the Shine on your crazy diamond is even just decent, it is simply amazing. Welcome to the machine is also amazing, the lyrics are great, and the music is good. Have a cigar i think is a good song, the lyrics might not be as good as their others, but u can't be perfect. Wish You Were Here, i feel is possibly the greatest song ever by any band, maybe cuz i'm still young, but I think that song has amazing lyrics and a great guitar, I can't get sick of that song. I think that complaining that they couldn't do better than DSOTM is so stupid, i mean it's kinda hard to follow up one of the best albums ever.

[Grand Vizier]

Originally posted by Not Now John
Gilmour and Wright contributed plenty to Animals. Your a bit of a wanker.

Regarding Animals...Gilmour's only contribution is on 'Dogs' - Waters was well on the way to taking total control of the band...

(*Pssst! John - if I'm a bit of a wanker, then you're a a total ****. Okay?)

[Grand Vizier]

It's kinda funny - I'm glad I cut/pasted that article....all these smart Floyd 'fans'...yet none have come up with any smart answers, comebacks or reasonable debates.....hmmm, I wonder why?

[Madcap Laughs]

You are obviously Roger Waters himself. Because I doubt anyone would agree with you otherwise.

[jetsfan4ever80]

Originally posted by Grand Vizier
It's kinda funny - I'm glad I cut/pasted that article....all these smart Floyd 'fans'...yet none have come up with any smart answers, comebacks or reasonable debates.....hmmm, I wonder why?

well, what kind of answer r u looking for?

[Not Now John]

Because we've already discussed the hell out of it. Really, I didn't disagree with most of what you said, except for that bit about Dave and Rick. And thanks for using the c-word. I see now, not only are you dumb and lazy, but also vulgar.

[echoes69]

Maybe I don't have much of an opinion considering you can't think for yourself. You use other people's ideas to start an argument, think of your own ideas, you dumb, pathetic bastard.

[GeraldTheMouse]

Originally posted by Grand Vizier
....all these smart Floyd 'fans'...

You insinuate we don't actually like Pink Floyd, and your reasoning is that we won't argue with you? I don't get it.