FLOYDIANS MUST READ

he's right you know?

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stchrissie is not me.

yes.

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When Bucks Fizz’s tour bus crashed they all survived. When Metallica's bus crashed Cliff Burton died. Why?

I am absolutely right

No your not absolutely right.

And just to raise the question to everyone (i'm not talking directly to you Pink Pig, as Charade we are both, but to all who share your same view).

Would Floyd be the same if from the start Roger Waters was a solo artist and in fact all this time Floyd = Waters?

It seems to me it would definatley not be the same - Gilmour is a hell of a guitarist. And i don't believe it would be the same at all - different style of music etc..

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Of course they wouldn't be the same, after all, Waters solo aint the same, just better THAN the Gilmour run Floyd.

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stchrissie is not me.

There's no way it would have been the same. The rest of the band has contributed a lot to the music and without them the music would be different. If that was different, then it wouldn't have been the same, which answers your question.

Interesting point Charade. Yes, it would have been different and you are right the other band members did make a contribution, especially David Gilmour. However, Roger Waters was the creative force that made Pink Floyd what they were and the rest of the band are trading on that today.

Let me turn your question round. Would Momentary Lapse and Division Bell, not to mention the tours, have been so well received if they had called themselves The David Gilmour Trio ?

Look- view it this way:
Roger Waters ran Pink Floyd. When he got pissed off with the whole thing, he left. Leaving them leaderless. Just because Dave was the other singer and bloke at the front, everyone thinks of him as the leader. This is actually a misconception. They have NO leader. The problem is that they are an aimless bunch, and that is the whole problem.

All they require is for someone to take control, point them in a direction and, for ****'s sake, take charge.


Like Roger did.

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When Bucks Fizz’s tour bus crashed they all survived. When Metallica's bus crashed Cliff Burton died. Why?

I think your right because if you look at it from an "entrepenuer" view - the managers did take control and there was someone at the top, and they did make alot of money with their "division Bell" (which i think is pretty good).

But musically, the album doesn't flow! I don't find so much deeper stuff that i found from all the other Floyd stuff (except some of their really early one's). Division Bell is just more general.

But anyway, I think that they had a right to the name aswell because Roger wanted to leave doesn't have to represent all their views and how they want to express their musical talent.

Even though Roger was the musical leader, the other fellows weren't (always) there just so they can call themselves a band - they need to work together, and know eachother's style.

This sense of collaborative style is proficient in "the Division Bell", it's just not expressed as well as in all the other albums (besides some songs).

Don't forget exceptions, exploit them.

Patrick

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As I've mentioned on other forums, I could accept Division Bell as being OK if they had not called themselves Floyd.

To me, comparing the last 2 "Floyd" albums with the 4 classics (DSOTM, WYWH, Animals, The Wall) demeans the importance of those works. Surely most of us on these forums understand these are works of incredible power...?

I certainly doubt many (any ?) bands will ever be able to come close to producing such pieces. For goodness sake, I still get a shiver down my spine, a tear in my eye and a lump in my throat when I listen to these albums - and I have been a serious fan for 20odd years !

Yes, i'm positive most of us, if not all of us get almost that same shiver, or lump in the throat, or tears, from some part of these beautiful songs, and not even from those 4 you mentioned - Echoes does it to me, such a wonderful feeling.

Ya know we should talk more about that "Floyd Feeling", but that's for another thread.

Anyway, yea Rog. was quite the force on Floyd but i Still believe the members had the Right to Continue if they wanted, they just needed to fill in, like Flixxlevy said - maybe us fans wouldn't like it, but it would be better for the band.

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Oh yea, and i must say, to sorta prove that I get that feeling when listening to Floyd.

I'll say that i was lying in bed, The Final Cut on and the soft music of Two Suns In the Sunset started.

I sorta smiled to myself and rolled over, letting the music soak into me, and it did soak. I thought about how Roger and Richard must have felt, and how Richard just wasn't pulling his weight after soo many years of beautiful work, and that it was just too bad that Roger had to end it....and i thought and i thought.

And i must admit i shed some tears when listening to the last lines of that song "We're all equal in the end", how he didn't mean it all as a personal thing, he was pissed off at that time, and the effects of Rock life has certainly had its tole.

But we truely are all equal in the end.

And ya know what,

I feel more at one with the music now.

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Actually, Fixxlevy, I think Dave has taken credit for The Water-less Floyd, But he's not much of a leader. The thing with DB, which isn't a very good album under any name, is that it was all swept up by the hype of being Floyd. Along with the Douglas Adams involvement and Plubius garbage, which thankfully no one has mentioned here yet, it was less of a musical album and more of hype-machine. Perhaps if Dave and the boys would have knuckled down and forgotten about once famous satirical writers, they could have produced something that at least equalled MLoR. And who knows, with a little more effort. They could have prodused something equal to, but not the same as, Roger's old works.

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stchrissie is not me.

Not sure it's about leadership or management as such, more about creativity. Roger Waters is essentially a poet (the lyrics are as important to me as the music, if not more so) as well as coming up with some great music.

David Gilmour is an excellent guitarist with more than a little talent for writing music. However, he just doesn't have "it" like Roger does. Sorry to make the same point again, but even the spectacular live shows are continuations or copies of Roger Waters' ideas.

We've talked about the "Floyd feeling" - who can honestly say they get that feeling from the last 2 "Floyd" albums ?