I bought The Final Cut! and got pissed off...

_archer · #1 05-30-2001, 11:14 AM

Hi,

I bought today the final cut, and quite enjoyed it, until Roger waters started with:

"Brezhnev took afghanistan
Begin took Beirut
Galteieri took the union jack
and maggie over lunch one day
took a crusier with all hands
apparently to make him give it back"

Even worse on the next track roger suggusts
to put all of the dictators and terorists in a closed TV circuit, as a solution. and Who is there? Not Saddam Hussain,Arafat,the Fascistic Galteieri,Humeini,or a such, but
Menahem Begin, Ronald Reagan,Maggie Thatcher,
oh and yeah, he puts them together with
Brezhnev and some "group of anonymous latin-american meat packing glitterati"...

Further More, How Dare he compare the Lebanon war with the russian invasion into afghanistan and with the falkland war?

at first, the falkland islands are thousands of miles away from the british coasts, while Lebanon boards with israel, and Brezhnev
Attacked with No provocation from the Afghan
side while the PLO which led lebanon into civil war, after driven off from jordan, where the PLO tried to overthrow the Existing
monarchy and government which gave it refuge,
Fired Not "Katyusha" Rockets but Military Artilery on Israelian Civilian Settlements, Towns and cities, Deep into the Galil, and Murdered more than a thounsand Christians in Lebanon, just for their beliefs.
The Israelian Government had to do something,
for Its citizens lifes was in danger and The UN forces inside Lebanon did nothing usefull.

It's obvious That roger doesn't knows what he's talking about, and I would recommand him to live for 2 weeks in the northen Galil
during 1982 or to speak with the people who's
human rights was taken during the fascist rule in Argentina, maybe than He will understand why I was pissed off in the middle of one of my Favourite Band's Brand New Bought album.

I won't stop listening to pink Floyd, but I'm surer than ever, that altough this is a Good album, this album would never be number one
on my top five Floyd albums.

Charade I Am · #2 05-30-2001, 07:05 PM

Yoav,

I'm sorry about your bad "floyderience" here.

(But, hey remember, Roger was out after this album so maybe this shows he was goin' crazy :smile: )

Ok, and plus i was not certain of all the political aspects engrossing this issue. When i told you about and to buy the Album, it's because i really enjoyed the music and the lyrics where very good in most parts - much like the Wall in respect to Roger's predecessors (father and such).

Now Yoav. I realize that you are mad and hey, Roger might have been aswell. Now - after reading your whole shpeel (sp?) carefully - i know you know what your talking about. And i think Roger was Sane enough to know what he was talking about when he put out that album.

It seems he has gotten more passive since then - though at that time when he (and i guess the other members) put that out, Roger wasn't in one of his 'happy' let's go talk about how beautiful the world is mood.

Now Yoav, calm down and take a look from the other side. It is extremely hard to do this when your people (i'm guessing your family or 'people' were affected by this) are you and....
...well just try and think of the situation from the flip side.

And i heard how you said that some things don't have to do with eachotehr as their across the world or not on the British Coast or something - remeber everything is in fact is and certainly can be relative.

Check out the Opposing views and see if they have validity. You may surprise yourself.

I'm gonna read your message again cause you said alotta stuff that i didn't really understand :smile:

I'm glad you still like Floyd - hell i know that nothing really could make me give up Pink Floyd, not even a flop album that violated me somehow. But that's art dude.

That's art.

The Piper · #3 05-31-2001, 09:00 PM

I have to say I really liked your post. When I first heard "Amused to Death" I had the same kind of feeling (although in a much lesser degree, since it involves so little if compared to the things you mention in your message). Anyway, in "It's a Miracle" (notice the name of the song), he says "A brazilian grew a tree". I mean, it's like he has no idea we are one of the few countries that still has a LOT of the forest intact. The so-called "first world countries" wiped them all centuries ago, and now he is saying that a brazilian growing a tree is a miracle? Anyway, I won't go further into this, as I'm just trying to prove my point. Which is that Roger, as most of the people in the world, don't know much about the true history of the world. He doesn't know the true story of the Falklands, or Lebanon, Afghan and Israel. He tries to prove his point using common sense from what he hears (or heard years ago) on the news. Which is that all brazilians hate trees, that Begin took Beirut and Maggie made him give it back.

Anyway, I have to get going cause I'm going on a trip tomorrow and will be back only on Tuesday, and I don't wanna be this long, so cheers to y'all, and don't be so mad at Roger, _archer... It's just the way people paint things to us one way or the other.

Cheers,
Paulo

Charade I Am · #4 06-01-2001, 03:47 PM

"He tries to prove his point using common sense from what he hears (or heard years ago) on the news. "

Paulo - i though amused to death was supposed to be about how horibble the TV is and how the TV news and such only worsen's matters like War and such.

Maybe (meaning that this is in no way true nor false and that it may or may not present MY opinion and you should in no way see it as infringing upon you but rather as something i just thought)

Maybe (...you know) the talk in "It's a Miracle" about how a Brazilian Grew A tree is Roger describing the effect - negative obviously - that the news can have. That so many think that it would be a "miracle for a Brazilian to grow a tree because they hate them" - and this is due to the News - and how negative the news can actually be.

Which i think was the point of the album (though, like so many - i haven't heard it all)

I could be wrong, but see ita s you may!

Just some friendly advice

patrick

caffenefrk · #5 06-01-2001, 08:04 PM

I don't know where to begin about how wrong your post is. If you noticed the release date on the Final Cut, you'd see that it was 1983, so it was probably recorded during 1982. Saddam Huessein wasn't shit then. Yasir Arafat wasn't shit then. He used Regan and Thatcher because they were the political figures of the time. So don't go on a tear about him not writing about the frickin' nuclear missile crisis in Iraq back then.

#6 06-02-2001, 02:37 AM

I heartily agree with the last post. Roger didn't know about Saddam, cause nobody knew about Saddam. I think Roger was protesting against war in general. Not those particular world leaders. If you remember in the Wall he almost sounded as if he was against the British trying to hold off the Nazi war machine, but he was using poetic license. He wasn't against fighting the nazis, he was just against fighting in general (after all it was the second world war that caused him to lose his father).

_archer · #7 06-03-2001, 08:44 AM

First thing:
Arafat WAS "SHIT" in 1983, PLO was founded in 1964 and have done Terror acts in europe already in 1970, which shows how little YOU know about history...
2nd thing:
The Israelian knew about saddam Hussein in 1981 when they bombed his nuclear weapon
factory and the whole world jumped against israel. Imagine what would have happaned if saddam had Nuclear missiles in The Gulf war...
The Whole world should thank Israel for Doing so.
3rd thing:
I didn't have anything against roger for saying how horrible war is, I just didn't like the way he said that Begin is no different than Brezhnev and that the Lebanon war is the same case as the Soviet invasion into Afghanistan. I didn't said I would stop listening to Pink Floyd or anything.
4th thing:
It was the Nazis, Not the war which killed his Father.
5th thing:
I like the wall, although It's Not My Number 1 Favourite Pink Floyd album,I think the final cut is also a good album, but the fokes were right when they didn't want to put the final cut stuff into the wall, t would have ruin it.But they were wrong when they told roger he couldn't release it as a solo project if he wanted to.
Anyway, I know i'll get hit for this, But I get more musical enjoyment from "High Hopes"
and "Learning to fly" then from "Amused to Death"...
My favourite Pink Floyd era stays 1968-1975...

Charade I Am · #8 06-03-2001, 09:20 PM

Ha - i have already learned how much _archer here knows about history so i wouldn't fight him on that people.

Paulo's out somewhere so i'm here to settle things down - let's not get to slap happy keep your tones down - we all appreciate a true reply that is suttle then a thrashing one.

So keep it real.

Um, I know i don't have the authority to tell u guys what to do - but i think that we should try to keep it "nicer"

thank you and go listen to some floyd!

Not Now John · #9 06-04-2001, 04:52 PM

Roger, didn't think of Saddam as a threat. And get off your high horse. Isreal is responsible for stealing land from poor dirt farmers, and you wanna get pissed off when they want it back.

Charade I Am · #10 06-04-2001, 05:00 PM

Hey "Not Now John" - you don't have to reply in such a negative and dis-repectful tone - _archer here, i think knows what Israel has done - and due to his heritage and such i'm sure, doesn't appreciate such talk.

But if you think you have something signifcant to prove then i'm in no way asking you to stop - but say it as though you are not supreme here.

Got it?

I don't wanna have to tattle tale to D-man :smile:

And i'm sure Paulo wouldn't appreciate all this.

----Ohh - and D-man, when you read this - remember i'm trying to help you here so as soon as you get back from wherever you were going - take it from here!!!----

Thank you and have nice day.

Patrick

Radiochair · #11 06-04-2001, 07:32 PM

Man, this is getting pretty rough. I wish I could contribute to this conversation, but I will be honest and say I know nothing about it. BUT, I would like to just say that I think Roger is against anything involving war and violence. I don't think he's trying to make anybody mad or say some wars are worse then others.

Not Now John · #12 06-04-2001, 07:55 PM

Sorry to offend anyone, just he came off so strong about how Roger should somehow be defending Isreal, he misses the whole point of the song. I suggest (at least to myself) to stay off that subject for awhile.

Charade I Am · #13 06-04-2001, 10:00 PM

I understand "Not Now John".

_Archer - you do need to be a bit nicer your self as well!!

I'd like to understand this album more fully myself.

So i truely do want you to finish what you were saying in a polite - clear manner, just explain yourself and your thoughts clearly and we'll see what _archer, or Yoav will say and i think we'll all learn alot.

So go ahead and dish out what you believe to be the meaning of all this.

I'll be listening! :smile:

patrick

_archer · #14 06-04-2001, 11:03 PM

OK
The Final cut Is a good album
I DON'T HATE ROGER

I think "Not now John" has heard Antisemic propaganda and believed it, BUT I'M NOT OUT TO GET HIM

I think A country's duty is to defend Its Citizens,Not to embark an Imperialist endeavor which includes stealing Farmers Lands, and that duty was Israel Job for the past 53 years, and It's sad that after Barbarian Terrrist acts like the one in My home town, People still close their eyes and Imagine that Israel is the agressive side.
Not Even one of the Jewish settlements on Judea ,Samaria and gaza strip were build on land taken from the arabs! it was all rocky hills or sand dunes which nobody else wanted...

Let's Close this in a nice way, I'm sure Roger ment well, he just might wasn't expert on the Israelian-Arab Conflict.
I don't like wars, But I think, that sometime
force is neccesery in order to bring peace
(Isn't that what YOU did in The Balkans not long ago?)
I think That Arafat is no diffrent than hitler so he Must be stopped, in order to bring peace.

I wish you all Peace Brothers and sisters Flodyians, When the cold wind Blows,
One by Fire glows...

_archer · #15 06-04-2001, 11:12 PM

One More thing,
Roger probably Hated wars, and he saw that everywhere in the world a war is starting
so he got Nervous,and picked where ever he could wars from the globe,I now Understand that, But he should have been more
Fair and don't put Brezhniev,Reagen and Begin
on the same level...

OK?

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I bought The Final Cut! and got pissed off...

1977 to 1983 - Waters Domination