Anyone here ever disappointed when they find out the true meaning of some PF songs?

Thanks for your reply.

The only thing to 'admire' if that is the 'right' word, is his insecurities, his humanity, his real feelings, the ones he tries to cover up. That is all there is to 'admire' for want of a 'better' word.
That would be the beginnings of his humanity which need a chance to come up for air and not be judged.

I think its okay for him to have 'bad' feelings about himself, if he could acknowledge them without fear, he would metamorphosize, and see that you don't have to be a fan of this and that to be 'accepted'. His story is his own, but he has suffered greatly in the past, but he thinks he has 'come along way' and he is still to me back there... hurting. How has he come along way, well, I don't know, whatever it is to be 'successful' I guess. To kick a habit, to be able to criticize and feed of other peoples problems, to say if you don't like this band then your an idiot (truly, its still in kindergardent).

To say I think it is okay for him to have 'bad' feeling about himself, is just that I don't think they are 'bad' as such. He doesn't feel intelligent, someone must have pumped that into his head, of course he is, but just not emotionally.

If he hears a word he doesn't understand such as 'token' or 'chastise' he takes fright, then whispers to other people 'she or he thinks they are intelligent' about everyone else. Isn't it okay to not understand a word and ask? What's wrong with not understanding a word? I think in that sense, it is okay to be a child forever, to keep learning forever, what is wrong with admitting you don't understand something? Its not a crime. Its a chance to learn.

Then its his turn to get up, and the first thing he does is tell the class they don't know what 'hypothetical' means and everyone is sitting thing looking of course a bit confused. What he projects, is the trial going on behind the veneer, the judge and jury and the trial is going on in his head.

Now Franz Kafka and several other writers, including Hesse have had a chance of dealing with trial (as did Floyd I think in the Wall).... the creative outlet... Its the doppelganger affect I think.

There is one word I would use to stop evolution (emotional) in its tracks, its name is judgement.

In a world of such inequality, outside, and inside, and judgment, how can you not be left hanging as such....

As for him.... please tell me what to admire. What is admiration?

I have empathy for people who still feel, because I have bumped into people without any intrinsic value for themselves at all and not even feeling loss about it.... They may as well be coat hangers, barbie dolls that go out and get a wardrobe and a Ken to match and a car and whatever.

That is a new 'breed' altogether. There is that phrase 'calous indifference', strike out the callous and you have it.

All this time I have just 'seen' a writhing, frightened, projecting (projectile), hiding veneer, and that is not what I can relate to but I understand it. I don't know how to break through, except to reinforce the message... its okay to feel (its the only way you know you are real).

Now this may shit a few people, but its actually my experience of life... As usual, it is followed by a read... The feelings catch the words because after the feelings you grasp the words, I guess how children learn words, to paint the picture of how they feel.

For the parts to become whole, the must absorb 'good and evil' both. I sat with my 'evil' (so called) feelings, and flipped them on their head. It was just about trying to breathe, to come up for air.
I felt the theft, inside, like a vacuum, painful, and had those feelings of envy, jealousy, about how others got to walk a straight line lets say, never had that theft... But, as agonizing as it was, I flipped the thinking in my head, to.... I do not wish it on them, it is not their fault, I wish for others that they do not have to feel as I feel... And it was a long battle after that, but I kept flicking that switch...

Also, like critics of musicians and arts and so on.... critics in general, they are tourist man, they take snapshots... They don't see the dance of life, the dance of the person behind their art or their life as art, the art of survival, or living, they trap it in snap shots, and then say oh, its this and this, conforms to this... It means this... and by the same measure, remain in static land themselves, never able to see.... What moves, what has life...

Takes me a long time to make a point, thats because I am busy evolving and as soon as I have one, its on the way to becoming something else...

Snapshots... yes so even if I felt envious, jealous of another person, I also acknowledge that it was just a snapshot I was seeing, that I had no right to say what they have or haven't got or been through.... Its just a snapshot. Unfair to judge, just as it is for me to myself.

So I tolerated the 'dark side', even nursed it, to really feel it sink all the way in, so I could see where it was coming from.

As for personal detail, none.

Resist not evil.... = Don't go taking issue with yourself in the mirror. Because you know when someone else pisses you off, its because something in you has the wounds to recognize it.... It is a mirror... So rather than be in this endless cycle of shame and guilt and hate crap, I got me a way out.....

But that I do not advocate to anyone else because I have no right, I am my own truth, I can't 'tell' anyone else.... And it was pure and utter hell for me to arrive 'here' wherever 'here' is... because it keeps rolling on anyway.

----sorry about the lengthy post-----

Someone made a post in another thread about Roger Walters I think being a Facist.

Check out : Alice Miller "The Drama of being a Child" and also "The Gifted Child" (the art of survival).... She talks about Hitler and Stalin and Hermen Hesse as well, but as for the first two, it was precisely because they did not 'bare their naked feelings' and did not admit of a fault, had been thrashed by their respective fathers within inches of their lives, that their ego never got to develop self-esteem, then they went and hid behind a cause, and others get 'rich' I guess or 'successful' to cover it up because that is what they are told 'success' means...

I cannot speak for Walters, only that if a person does admit of feelings, dark painful feelings, sadness, then they are almost certainly not a facist, not even a naescent facist.

As Ziggy Marley had in that song "Tomorrow People", 'you don't know your past you don't know your future, if there is no love in your heart, there is no hope for you... too true!'

Read Alice Miller... good credentials... prolific writer about childhood suffering.... and good credentials because she was either thrown out or left the American association of psychologist of her own accord, which makes me want to ..... BIG TICK. Right on. Stop DSM'ing human pain...

I'm on the low... my friends are on the low... they are real, because they feel....

Back to him.... tell me what to admire... It would be interesting... I have good friends, thick and thin, I don't need whatever the popularity it is that he has which he will only have for a short time anyway... It is a pithy... no real substance.

cheers

T

So, does all that mean you do or don't admire/fancy "him"? I got lost somewhere around Ann Miller.

__________________
Count me in on the journey, don't expect me to stay.

I never get past the first couple of lines.

me either.

__________________
last orders please.

That's because you can't read.

oh yeah.

__________________
last orders please.

Yeah!

some people listen to a song and get a certain idea about it's meaning, often shaping it to fit a situation in their own lives.
then later, when they find out the original meaning, they feel let down, even a little angry. the real meanings of songs r sometimes fascinating, sometimes very disappointing. but it's great when a song can fit into whatever meaning we need it to have in especially hard times in our lives.---- unless some really ****** up kid uses a song to justify suicide or murder. then the victims can include the innocent musician who is sued for his lyrics--i.e. ozzy ozbourne

__________________
That's 'Mistress-Goddess-Queen' Bitch, to YOU! If you insist on calling me that, then you must use my FULL title, you filthy peasant.

Slower traffic keep RIGHT, DAMN YOU!

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." --HST

Waters! Time to pay the Piper!

Yeah, Alice Miller - "The drama of being a child" &, "The gifted child" and "for your own good".

Again, a fan unto yourself...

All this war and violence stuff won't stop until each part is a whole... warts and all... no more leaders.... no more heroes...

The chain breaks at its weakest link, or the sum of the parts detracts from the whole.

So, when she discusses Mr. Adolf, it was when he was a child, ruthlessly beaten, then for the ego that is ashamed and hides, covers it over with a cause, becomes a hero, finds a scape goat...

So the hero, is in fact, a weakling... A hurting person... hasn't resolved the pain... self-esteem... That's my point... You can't get your dignity, your self-respect, self-acceptance, on other peoples heads, and bodies. But he becomes a superman.... to compensate.

Everyone else who has suffocated inside, identifies with what they think is strength, but it is not strength, it is compensation for what inside is stripped bare.

.... I am sorry if you don't get past the lines or whatever... I am my own problem...

In the beginning, People were the Opium of the People...
Then there was twaddle...
including
Ideology, Demagogues as the Opium of the People
In the end...
People are the Opium of the People...

"and if the damn breaks open many years too soon" ----------------------
DAMN IT.... can't we all just get to the Dark Side of the Moon now...

Tired of all this Apocalypse crap... I think my threshold has burst assunder.... not waiting to 'see' how it all turns out, not part of the turning away, children don't count or ask how it all works out in the end, why should I? Time waits for no man, but if you waste it, you get wasted.... No?

...
The Titanic is full throttle.... sinking baby... So, what is to admire? The deck chairs... The champagne..... A bit of music? Damn it, I just want to jump off...

That's me in a corner... that's me in the spot light... confusing myself stupid... oh no... I think I've said enough...

Was the Adam & Eve story annoying or the Tarzan and Jane? Or all of it... Lets get on with some trivia, thats fun.

I tried the tree swinging thing... I don't advise it.... I managed to get the pendulum affect until I slammned into the other tree. Then obviously I K.O'd myself, and woke up a little later... bruised.

You are supposed to land on a branch of course and yeah sure, hope that doesn't brake and swing back and hit the first tree...

But, if I could, I'd turn a desert into a giant trampoline so I could jump for my miles and miles...

You're still talking.

__________________
is snuggly

Hi & bye...

A tip for whoever in Floyd is having the nightmares - E.M.D.R (non talking therapy... developed for ex-vets, psychs don't use it because, you guessed it, it works... hence its not profitable... You won't have to talk about it with anyone, not even the therapist.)

I've decided to unsubscribe.. who knows
I might reverse my decision...
So far, its too depressing, can't
be an audience... audience....
Can't be a part of the show either..
So, I'm disappearing into the
shadows...
As far as the questions of envy,
admiration and all that go...
You should interrogate yourself,
ask yourself, what is it that
'whoever' has that you think is
'worth' having?
I'm just coming up for air to
see the humane face...
Its the only reason I bother
breathing... Everything else
makes me sick, physically, in
all ways sick... Man as a cog...
He never was....
The answers to the questions
I find, always are in the mistakes
and regrets I have... I don't
know how to learn from success...
I've never learnt anything from
it... I don't know what it is
anymore. I also don't give a toss.
Later aligator.

- One last book to look - the
best on the deck at the moment -

"People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck.

Do I not admire or admire.... is it my call? Everyone else is doing the judging and the hating and the competing ... I don't have to admire or not admire a thing... you can do it for me... There is just learning... Admire, Condone, Critique, Analyze, Judge, Hedge your bets (house wins).... All Snapshots... don't get stuck in middle ground.... It doesn't really exist.

Tarra.

OK, I'm moving past Dr. Kevorkian. Tilted needs a sit down with Wacko Jacko, that'll take some of the thoughts out of that head, and it'll keep the two of them amused for awhile. (assuming Tilted is a voluptuous young child)