Why is Roger so bitter towards Dave?

Stratman makes an excellent point.

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Pox
"Please don't put your wires in my brain"

Is that because you think TFC is great, ot because you think MLOR and DB are crap?

Actually I prefer TFC too, it has an authenticity about it that the post Waters Floyd lacked. I think Waters claim that Gilmour/Waters/Mason were fraudsters was not unjustified. Without Waters the band had no direction, I remember reading interviews around the time The Division Bell was released where they said tried to think up a concept for the album but couldn't!

To be fair to Gilmour/Waters/Mason they did have to do something with their lives as retirement was a good few years off , and they were entitled to carry on with the franchise. Only trouble is they didn't really know what to do with it. They ended up being little more than a Pink Floyd tribute act.




Rog n' Dave during happier times. Don't worry, tongues were not being used

ok first, that picture and the tongue comment...I'm laughing like an idiot now.

it's more of I think amlor and tdb are crap. Not that I didn't try liking them. I always tought that when you don't like an album you have to give it a few listens before judging it. well, after about 200 listens I finally gave up. I really don't like these albums. I didn't like TFC at first but it grew into me after 5 or 6 times, you know, getting to know the songs better.

didn't you mean Wright instead of Waters....???

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Daddy! Take the banana! Tomorrow is Sunday!

I agree with the two above posts entirely. However, there are a few points rasied by Rabbit's last one on the previous page that I feel need to be reiterated, regarding sales in particular...

Because of the public's familiarity with the name, simply putting out a new record with "Pink Floyd" on the album cover is worth at least 1 million record sales. The record companies are more likely, given this incredible name-brand recognition, to promote Pink Floyd records with attendant advertising campaigns, tour promotion, etc. instead of records by some bloke a comparitively small number of people have heard of. A package with "Pink Floyd" stamped on it is a guaranteed success, no matter what the content, given enough promotion.

This promotional assault on the market translates into further record sales by virtue of increased visibility. Hence, more revenue is generated for touring and even MORE promotion so that larger venues can be booked and subsequently sold out. It is then the media, particularly music papers and MTV-like stations who deal in the business of awarding artists for moving large numbers which, based on the resulting disparity in numbers, label Roger Waters' records "boring and pretentious shite" when in fact I and quite a few others would be hundreds of times more inclined to give that label to, say, The Division Bell rather than Amused To Death.

Make sense?

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what do you teach your little children about me?
pimp, thug, bling drug lord of the undergrounded kings
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Agreed

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Sharp-distance

I half agree with you. I agree about the importance of brand in the marketing of the Pink Floyd product, or indeed any product. However I don’t agree that this guarantees success. Ultimately the band have to deliver the Floydian sound the consumer wants to hear, if this doesn’t happen then no amount of promotion will get the level of sales the record company were aiming at when they negotiated the contract with the band.


Here you are confusing cause and effect, and I would simply reiterate what I said in my previous paragraph.


Many music papers have also been quite scathing about the post Waters Pink Floyd, and though they would use the above description, they probably would omit the word ‘pretentious’ from it. The more corporatist media (like MTV) are engaged in the practices which you refer to, but again this is just giving people what they want, not dictating to people what they shall have.

I am not a fan of the post Waters Pink Floyd, and I think the band were creatively finished when he quit, though I respect the right of Gilmour & Co to carry on with the band. Gilmour himself said that he had spent his life building up the Pink Floyd name and saw no reason not to benefit from it now Waters was gone (though the prospect of playing - his more Floydian fare - to half empty small venues was certainly the motivating factor).

However I could not call the Post Waters Floyd ‘pretentious’, that they were not. Waters was always a bit pretentious in the later Pink Floyd albums, but when he was on his own he did not have the music to cover his pretentiousness and so this aspect of his work was horribly exposed as it had not been previously.

I respect your right and the right of “and quite a few others” to a favourable opinion on Waters solo work, I was only pointing out that as far as the public is concerned it is the ‘classic’ Pink Floyd Sound that they enjoy, and wish to spend their money on, and that is exactly what they have done. These things are democratic, and the people have spoken.

I sure did Lil!

Freudian slip perhaps?

It's the chicken vs. the egg, really. The product does need to at least resemble the past successes of the brand for it to be marketable. It's easy enough to bask in the shadow of yesterday's triumph, and if you can put backwards echo on the drums and use samplers in a certain way and have your guitarist wring the notes out in an identifiable way, you're halfway there. It still doesn't really matter what songs they play, what words they say or time of day it is, does it?

Don't underestimate the marketing machine at full steam.

You're right. Sometimes I have trouble separating what the band say about their work and what other people say about it (but not half as much trouble as some people on these types of messageboards have).

True enough. No accounting for tastes.

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what do you teach your children about me?
what do you teach your little children about me?
pimp, thug, bling drug lord of the undergrounded kings
how can you be so sure i won't call down the rain?
what do you teach your little children about me?
you point your gun, wait, hide and run. i see it plain

I'll be happy to if I get the opportunity but until then it's my opinion that Gilmour is irreplaceable in Floyd.

I have to ask the same question again:
http://www.pinkfloydfan.net/showthre...830#post295830

Three things:

1. That Rolling Stone interview was hilarious. Even while feeling "warm and cuddly" towards the other band members he still took time to takes shots at Dave and Rick with his claims that Dave was jealous of him and that Rick and Dave told him that he couldn't sing/play bass, which from all the interviews with other band members that I've read it was the other way around.

2. What the hell is with the bashing of Water's bass playing? He was named like number 22 or something in Guitar Magazine's Top 100 Bass Players list, dammit. I mean, Let There Be More Light, One of These Days, Money....IT'S IN REVELATIONS, PEOPLE! </obligatory Simpsons reference>

3. I disagree with this "Roger was being a pompous asshole by dedicating a song to Syd" bullshit. You people are just trying to find any reason possible to hate Waters even more.

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Life is a short warm moment, and death is a long cold rest.You get your chance to try in the twinkling of an eye, eighty years with luck or even less.

Huh? Roger told Rick and Dave that THEY couldn't sing/play bass?

__________________
what do you teach your children about me?
what do you teach your little children about me?
pimp, thug, bling drug lord of the undergrounded kings
how can you be so sure i won't call down the rain?
what do you teach your little children about me?
you point your gun, wait, hide and run. i see it plain

Wow. There seems to be a lot of haters of the post-Waters era. I think that AMLOR was not bad. There are some great songs on it, but overall was weak compared to the Final Cut (which i LOVED). However, The Division Bell, in my opinion, was the SHIT! I rank that album in my top 3 Floyd albums of all time.

Corrected.

__________________
what do you teach your children about me?
what do you teach your little children about me?
pimp, thug, bling drug lord of the undergrounded kings
how can you be so sure i won't call down the rain?
what do you teach your little children about me?
you point your gun, wait, hide and run. i see it plain