Are Pink Floyd the greatest?

Pink Floyd are they the greatest? - better reading this time!!!

For starters the founding member created rock. But then it forgot him....



Sketch by M.Gill

During my time on the net...I've come to realise the general consensus is that it is between.....Floyd, Zep and The Beatles

I’m going to continually update this opening thread with facts, figures. opinions and research that will further strongly suggest Floyd to be the greatest as to avoid the earlier opinion debacle.

First you’ve got to realise well known doesn’t automatically make something great.

Then take it in to account Floyd never had a positive contemporary image, they were unattractive and this hindered them in forming a platform like The Beatles, Stones, Robbie Williams. They got no exposure what so ever, whether it was through T.V, radio etc (Roger was an eyesore, unfit for telly. The songs were too long and demanding for radio). Floyd’s success mainly came by word of mouth.

The Beatles have been exposed to around 3 billion people so far; i.e. people who have heard more than 3 of their songs, whereas Pink Floyd have been exposed to as little as 250 million in this respect – if that!
But consider this… they’ve both roughly sold the same amount of albums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(120million give or take) You’ve got to work with me; I don’t want the usual subjective argument.

Most bands considered amongst the greats of all time have made around 20 classic songs. (Timeless because of excellence) The Beatles maybe 30 and with each song being around 3 minutes long that’s 90 minutes of quality music. – The Sex pistols probably didn’t produce 1 minute of excellent music. (As a guide)

Now let’s try it with Pink Floyd. I’m going to omit certain well known songs that the majority of Floyd fans dislike assuming that the majority of Floyd fans have good taste. (With bias being a factor this is fair)

Songs great lyrically but considerably poor musically and/or melodiously were also left out.

Knowing I had to do this experiment on a level playing field made some of the choices soul destroying, ‘Shine on you crazy diamond’ in particular was an heart breaking decision. All the Floyd fans I’ve come across like it, personally I love it, but the lyrics are totally about one thing and nothing else, those which only the band and fans feel passionately about. Most non Floyd fans I’ve listened to it with didn’t enjoy it.(I’m sure they’d acquire the taste for it if they knew the story of Syd and knew what Floyd were all about.) Usual comments are “too long,” Boring, nothing’s happening” or “it sounds odd.” (Syd himself) Sound wise the song has flaws – large passages of mediocre guitar/keyboard that are a little dreary. The chorus itself sounds too polished, especially knowing that it should represent raw emotion, I’ve heard Waters sing it live recently and the emotion in the chorus was impeccable, it was really fitting and how it should have been originally recorded. The song is near classic though; there are just so many good sequences. Dave’s 4 note arpeggio for instance still sends shivers up my spine every time I hear it.

It’s the same for all bands though; people grow in to the songs. Some people (through peers and copious exposure) develop a taste for excessively loud music like Sepultura, this music to those with a good taste in music is found to be offensive to the hearing. A lot of The Beatles songs appealed to people who don’t take life too seriously and just want to have a bit of light relief, a laugh when the mates are round. In The Beatles case (Yellow Submarine, Octopuses garden etc)

Here are the Classic Floyd tracks: (if you can’t imagine any of them great, picture someone else performing them…. Echoes – Rolling stones / Cymbaline – David Bowie / The narrow way P3 – The Beatles / Marooned – Fleetwood Mack etc.)

See Emily play - 2.53
Matida mother - 3.06
Paintbox - 3.46
Remember a day - 4.33
Set the controls for the heart of the sun - 5.25
See-saw - 4.35
It would be so nice - 3.47
Julia dream - 2.32
Cirrus minor - 5.17
Green is the colour - 2.57
Crying song - 3.31
Cymbaline - 4.48
The narrow way part3 - 5.56
Crumbling land - 3.30est.
Come in number 51, your time is up - 5.30est.
Atom heart mother - 23.42
Careful with that axe Eugene - 5.44
A pillow of winds - 5.09
Echoes - 23.29
Burning Bridges - 3.29
Mud men - 4.16
Breathe - 3.57
Time - 7.05
Great gig in the sky - 4.47
Us and them - 7.48
Any colour you like - 3.25
Welcome to the machine - 7.30
Sheep - 9.44
Another brick in the wall part2 - 3.59
Good bye blue sky - 2.20est.
Hey you - 4.38
Is there anybody out there? - 3.30est.
Comfortably Numb - 6.20
The final cut - 4.41
Embryo - 4.20est.
One slip - 4.40est.
Yet another movie - 5.00est.
Marooned - 5.26
Wearing the inside out - 6.48
Keep talking - 6.09
High hopes - 6.59

41 classic (great sounding) tracks, a touch more than The Beatles, but Floyds total time of quality music 246.01 minutes!!
Christ that’s just over 4 hour. Compared with the Beatles hour and a half it’s overwhelming.

If you took all the dodgy bits out of the Floyds songs (Echoes, Atom) they’d still have a bigger volume of quality work than any other.

As these two bands are in the main running realistically, it really rallies the Floyds cause.

Funny thing is I’m happy with Floyd being non mainstream, I like to think of them as a hidden gem, something only a few fortunate people have had the pleasure of discovering.
But it’s to prove to ourselves that what we listen to is the best.

In 1989 Forbes magazine published a list of the worlds highest paid entertainers Pink Floyd were 7th ahead of any other rock band - not bad to say Floyd have never been considered fashionable.

Image didn't sell records.
Marketing didn't sell records.
Radio play didn't sell records.
Death of a member didn't sell records.
T.V. appearances didn't sell records.
Controversy didn't sell records.
Great Dancing didn't sell records and encourage folk to see them live.

The music sells records and calls upon the masses to see them live!!!!!!!

Not that the lead singer looks good wiggling his bum on stage!!


A lot of folk think The Beatles are the greatest because of how influential they are, well.....

PINK FLOYD influences:

Radiohead..currently the biggest?/best band in the world (Q awards)
Oasis..the guys know every word off 'The Wall,' they acknowledge Pink Floyd influences in their songs just as much as The Beatles.
Blur..Coxon wants to be Syd, literally - "There's no otherway" -
Archive..awesome prog act, give a shout out to Gilmour on their album sleeve...total Floyd influenced.
The Orb.
...plus many more...I will list them all when I get time
Kate Bush..If it wasn't for the big Brian Dehenny lookalike...


Floyd are life! - the music and band members synchronise with anything and anyone!



72% Mila 28% Dave



55% Mary Brown 45% Dave

...And you can't get greater than life itself....everything Floyd do seems to fit something... Wizard of Oz, Yellow submarine, documentaries, Blade runner and a film about the begginning and end of Mans existence/awareness as we know it 2001 a space odyessy!...Pink Floyd still first in space!....It can't all be coincidence..can it? - Floyd, starchild?





Dr Floyd arrives for the briefing.....oh by the way which ones Pink!



Pink to Floyd - "We haven't seen you in a long time"....Dr Floyd looks at the time.

Later; - Dr Floyd stands in front of a machine; "Welcome to the voice print identification, state destination, nationality and surname."

Dr Floyd; - "Moon, American, Floyd."


.....Floyd sets off to The dark side of the moon....


The monolith is viewed by Floyd via a guiding pink light present in the background......

......later on mission to Jupiter 'Dave' gets a message from Floyd in regards to the mission.

.......moments later.....


Echoes synchronises from this point perfectly.

........until the point "Dave" becomes the highest order of all humans, maybe all conscious entities...and the song and film ends.

..Are Pink Floyd with Kubrick trying to tell us there is something on the dark side of the moon?

Pink Floyd Anthology VCD – track 11 (Sydney live 1971) Footage taken from The Superstars in concert compilation video.

Time:

0.00: Nothing – no void, no human life (notice blank picture)

0.01: (Entities gradually fade in) Sexual intercourse represented by the start of an immensely melodious sound.

0.20: Gilmour looks at his guitar as if it’s a tool he doesn’t know how to use, same with Waters who’s playing a simple two note bass line. (Universe and life)

0.39: Seemingly symbolising aquatic life a whale like sound is audible from Dave’s guitar

0.42: Smoke becomes ever more noticeable from Waters cigarette tucked behind the 4th string between the nut and the capstan on the headstock. (There is no smoke without fire)

0.50: Mason drums looking rather at odds with is tool.

1.00: Smoke dips to Waters hand and then lifts on contact. (Fire is being made)

1.12: Waters makes the first biological sound which is incoherent.

1.26: The tempo increases through an energetic Wright chord – pregnancy as begun/time, matter and anti-matter are coming close to meeting.

1.30: Gilmour’s guitar is starting to be put to good effect with simple string bending and endearing arpeggios. (The tool is being used to effect)

1.57: Another unanswered call from Waters.

2.00: Gilmour’s guitar seems to respond though.

2.06: A large ghostly primitive human face can be seen on the films footage, Mason seems to turn around and stare at it before looking away again. (You’ll need to view this in 1/16 time, look for the light above the cymbal Nick’s hitting)



......a lot of faces can be seen in Floyds footage....can you see the most profound humanoid face in the pig itself?

2.22: The footage passes deliberately via Waters cig, which seems to be burning more profusely, over to Rick who relaxes the organ once again. (The door that was open then shut is about to open again)

2.35: Gilmour’s guitar becomes more prominent and he starts to vocalise.

2.51: Waters finally answers Dave’s calls with spoken word. (Communication as been established) – (for millions of years mankind lived just like the animals) – difference imagination.

3.10: Gilmour’s voice and guitar are balanced perfectly, a beautiful symbiosis. (Man will never share with animals again as they did back then)

3.35: Waters lets out a screech, labour as begun.

3.40: Also for the animals. See 3.35

3.50: A screech for man followed by a despairing call for the animals.

4.24: Careful is heard, something manifests which points to there being something wrong with humanity.

4.35: Careful with that axe Eugene, the tool is now becoming understood and could poise a danger.

4.39: Gilmour looks wary and calms his guitar.

4.48: Waters steps away from the mic.

4.50: There’s an eerie calm. Time/matter/and anti-matter is coming to head. (Waters now aware of the rhythm method)

4.57: Bang! Mason pounds on his drums, Waters gives an immense scream, that seen in birth, life as begun.

5.00: Bang on 5.00 a double explosion at the back of the stage, (life and the universe) the big bang! The universe as become.

5.15: Waters screams begin to have a rumble in there aftermath, a volcanic induced atmosphere is being made.

5.30: Gilmour controls his guitar perfectly, his head shaking and nodding frenetically. (Life is in full throw) He is using his tool to the full; it can’t be played anymore effectively.

5.36: Camera continuously cuts from Waters to Mason, who are representing life at its most productive, Mason the heart, Waters the rhythm.

5.55: Gilmours tool has done it all, now he’s using voice command to further the tools usefulness.

6.10: Gilmour is wringing the guitars neck to get the utmost out of it, the guitar screams.

6.30: The guitar runs amok to the point were Dave as become the centre of attention, he now has the power.

6.50: Mason closes his eyes.

7.00: Waters face becomes hidden.

7.05: Dave steps away from the mic, he realises the guitar is the star. The energy relinquishes.

7.07: Roger gives a primordial scream.

7.10: The music calms, Dave’s guitar sounds sorrowful.

7.15: The light dies down; the universe is collapsing under its own gravity.

7.19: One last scream from waters. (Giver of all life)

7.43: Waters face looks a deathly grey; he appears not to be breathing.

7.46: The picture darkens to pitch black. (A void)

7.50: There’s a clap and the next song begins……………………….

That's just another reason Floyd are the greatest, nothing is greater than life.

P.S. isn't there a doctor on 2001 called Dr Floyd?


Dr Floyd meets the Russian lunar scientists..."welcome my son, welcome to the machine." - I don't look for these things, they just keep cropping up!

A lot of people say "Gill, music isn't good or bad, it's a question of taste."

...I disagree, I think you can have good and bad taste....I did something to define good music.

I got together with several music enthusiasts and a couple of musicians and over a period of three months we tried to give an unbiased verdict on what really are 30 great sounding songs. All genres were taken into account. Songs great because of their lyrical content were ignored.

Firstly we had to define what good sound was, we all agreed that sounds in the vain of babies cries, generator noise, screaming, creaking, banging, screeching, and barking were all unpleasant and offensive to the ears, but good sounds? Well, this was harder to determine – I came up with the whale theory i.e. it’s calming for pregnant women and stressed out people, I also believe a guitar played at its best will give a whale like audio quality. Seagulls calls cropped up a lot as being soothing, a soft voice over a piercing shout, the sound rain makes on leaves, a soft wind rustling past something, around mid octave vocal harmonies.
Instrument wise we all thought a Glockenspiel and harp were incapable of grating our hearing sense, something to do with a note quality that’s well rounded and slightly muffled.
We agreed a heavily distorted chord thrashed guitar sounded unpleasant but it did evoke enjoyment through its energy, it was hard to relax to but the adrenaline levels soared.

There was a problem with this theory though, all songs have more than one separate sound incorporated in their structure, some bad and some good in the same piece, we realised these combined sounds would have to be determined to be good through our perception and imagination. We had to distinguish between different imagery i.e. some noises can sound similar to a waterfall or detuned radio, a waterfall is considered beautiful a detuned radio is about as bad as it gets, we thought so long as it’s not the sound of a waterfall we’d consider the sound unpleasant. (Fridge buzz) In most cases a song had long passages of good sound and bad sound, one song had beautiful piano, soft lyrics and endearing vocal harmonies but it encompassed the harshest of guitar solos, this was part of the songs effect, a release from the growing tension. It got to the point were we had to say on the whole the song sounds great but its how the combined sounds and vocals evoke incredible emotion that makes this song stand out, this was through passion, atmosphere or sadness. Songs that portrayed an intense feeling of energy/anger/excitement had to be kept tight and controlled, not too noisy, we looked for the use of musical suggestion (maybe an increase in tempo/vocal harmonies etc)
All these moods created by our combined interpretation of the sounds were the deciding factor in stating why we felt one song was better than the next, some songs sounded very similar or were similarly enjoyable, so we went on which had the most feeling. We tried to select 30 atmospheric songs that anybody from the age of 2 to 102 would find melodious.

So here they are in no particular order:

Radiohead – Street spirit (fade out)
Michael Jackson – One day in your life
Andy Williams – Where do I begin
Moody Blues – Knights in white satin
Queen – Bohemian Rhapsody
The Beatles – The long and winding road
10 CC – I’m not in love
Genesis - Ripples
Radiohead – Paranoid Android
Annie Lennox – Love song for a vampire
John William – Cavatina
Bjork – Come to me
LucianoPavarotti – Nessun Dorma
Genesis – Blood on the rooftops
Ennio Morricone – Chi mai
Pink Floyd – Sea-saw
Michael Jackson – Why
Bjork – Play dead
Aled Jones – Walking in the air
Ascension – Someone like you (orig edit)
Pink Floyd – The narrow way part3
Michael Jackson - Earth song
Carpenters – For all we know
George Michael – Cowboys and angels
Genesis – Mad, mad moon
Righteous Brothers - Unchained melody
The Beatles – Something
Genesis – Snowbound
Sheryl Crow – Tomorrow never dies (full length CD version – not the raw film one)
Radiohead – Sail to the moon

There were a few other artists who just missed out – Simon & Garfunkle, Peter Gabriel, David Bowie. - I can provide the 250 shortlist