Genesis - the misconceptions

Wow, misconceptions run deep.

Browsing some past threads on Genesis in this forum, I have noticed a fair deal of Collins-bashing and...a lot of infactual information thrown around about what exactly caused the shift in Genesis from progressive band to pop band.


If I may, i would like to post some things regarding that, and set the record straight.

Phil Collins never divorced his wife by fax. That was a myth invented by the British press.


Next:

the idea for to go in the "pop" direction was NOT Phil Collins'.

Want to know whose idea it was?

It was everyone's.

Michael Rutherford, of Mike and The Mechanics fame, on bass and guitar...

The other band member, Anthony Banks, also known as 'Tony' banks, was the leader of Genesis after Peter Gabriel's departure. Many people get the wrong idea that Phil Collins was the leader of Genesis following the 1975 departure of Gabriel.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Collins stepped up to the mic in 1976 only after a fruitless search for a new vocalist (some 300 people were interviewed, as i recall). Phil had, in the past, sang backup vocals on most tracks and lead vocals on less than a handfull. Thus he filled in for the 1976 A Trick of the Tail album.

After that album's release, the plan was to once again resume the search for a new vocalist. But that never occured as the band was satisfied with Collins' vocal performance, and just continued.

Tony Banks and Peter Gabriel had, until 1975, been the primary lyrical forces in the band. After The Lamb, largely a Gabriel project (much as The Wall was a Waters project), and the departure of Gabriel, Banks was left as the sole lyrical leader of the band.

Rutherford, Hackett, and Collins all had lyrical contributions as well, in that exact order of proportion. As time went on, Steve Hackett found that less and less of his songs and ideas were being implemented by the band. By 1977, he became too frustrated to continue, and departed the band. Collins, at this time, was just beginning to develop his lyrical talents.


In 1978 the band was left as a 3-piece. Collins continued to develop songwriting skills and hone his voice for the albums. The album released in this year, "And then there were three", was, according to the band, not their best effort. With Hackett's (Guitar) departure, Banks, the keyboardist, tried to fill in the musical holes by using walls of sound using keyboards. It didn't work too well on that album, but it did create a noticable change in Genesis' music.

Without Hackett's distinctive guitar, Rutherford (bassist) had to fill in on guitar parts as needed. His style was much more simple than Steve's....and thus, Genesis tracks lost a bit of their depth.

The combination of simpler guitar riffs and overcompensation in the keyboard arena left Genesis music sounding more shallow than in the past.

Nevertheless they pressed on and did better on the next album. Duke (1980) was perhaps the perfect example of the band making the best possible effort they could as a 3 piece. The music was deeper than the 1978 album, more rich and textured and the lyrics brilliant.

In 1978 Phil's marriage fell apart. Not due to fault of his own, mind you. His wife cheated on him, ran off with a carpenter and moved to Canada.

Phil briefly moved to Canada to try and save the marriage, but it failed. This disaster is what started Phil's solo career. In 1980, he was writing lyrics expressing the anger, pain and loss over that marriage. Genesis was recording Duke at the time. He brought this material in. Of that material, only the following tracks were chosen: Please Don't Ask, and Misunderstanding.

Mike Rutherford (bassist) came up with the riff that would define "Misunderstanding" as a catchy tune. Phil's lyrics, expressive of cheating relationship, worked with the riff and Genesis had their first hit song in the United States. Please Don't Ask, Phil's other contribution to the album, was hardly pop. It was deeply emotional and sad, and very far from the mainstream.


After the release of Duke, Genesis's manager, Tony Smith, approached Phil Collins regarding the wealth of other material that he had written at the time in the fallout of his marriage, and suggested that Phil had enough good stuff there to make a solo record.

And so it was. In 1981 Face Value, a collection of all of those songs written after Phil's marriage failed, was released, and produced solid hits in "I Missed Again" and "In The Air Tonight."

Face Value also sold more copies than any Genesis record prior to 1980.


Seeing this, Rutherford and Banks in interviews of the time noted that Genesis had never seen success like that and they might be trying some new styles of music to survive, as the punk rocker scene was beginning to explode and Genesis, to some, was becoming "old hat."

In 1981, back in the studio, several tracks were recorded, then scrapped, and the sessions restarted. Those tracks: Submarine, Naminanu, You Might Recall, and Paperlate, later surfaced again as B-sides to singles from the 1981 album Abacab, and some of them were released as the 3x3 EP that circulated around Europe. (AKA Paperlate Single in the USA).

Those original tracks followed the style of Duke with with textured, smooth sounds mixed with complex drumming. The exception being Paperlate, a somewhat grating, but happy pop tune. I cannot remember right now who wrote Paperlate.

The re-starting of the sessions, instigated by Mike Rutherford ("I felt that we were beginning to go through the same old motions, the music sounded the same as last, and it seemed we were to become a caricature of ourselves lest we change") realized what would become the Abacab album: A very pop-oriented album based, basically, on just jamming out. The polish of the earlier albums was not there, and the album sounded more like a collection of demos rather than a typical Genesis album.

The new approach to conventional rock tunes propelled Genesis to higher chart standings.

But it wouldn't have happened would Mike Rutherford not have voiced his concerns to Tony Banks, who agreed with him, and saw the success of Face Value and wanted to steer Genesis that direction.

Phil, meanwhile, was beginning to write more music with a message to it. "Man on the Corner" was the first of many Phil Collins tracks about the homeless. And would be a minor hit for Genesis.


In 1982 Phil returned to the studio for another solo album...Hello I Must Be Going!, which featured further tracks regarding the breakup of his marriage and the pain and anger associated with that. The album was heavy and angry. The only light parts being the pop tracks "You Can't Hurry Love" (a cover of the original) and "Like China", a song about teenage sex. And a ridiculous track at that to which Collins does not hold in high esteem these days.

In terms of depth, it seemed, circa 1982, that Phil's music was much as textured and deep as that of his bandmates, interspersed with the occasional pop track.

In 1983 Genesis returned to the Studio for yet another album. This one would be recorded in record time for Genesis as the band members each had solo projects and phil was in the midst of a world tour at the time. Also on this album, the band members agreed that all members would share credit on all tracks. There would be no "Written by banks" distinctions. They would be Genesis songs.

"Genesis" was released, being something of a confused album. It wasn't quite pop, but it wasn't quite typical Genesis, either. Mike Rutherford's interest in going the pop direction influenced the sound of the album, making it more accessible, while Phil churned out more music of a similar vein to his first two solo albums. That's All continued a theme of disgust with another person. Set to a catchy tune.

Free Four anyone? (Depressing lyrics, catchy tune.) That's All could be categorized as a similar type of song. It reached #7.

The Banks-created "Home By The Sea" was an epic-length track that was half-pop, half-jam session. The first half of the song (the pop half) was release as a single, and flopped, seeing success only in Australia. Taking it All Too Hard, which I believe was also a banks creation, was released as a single and hit the top 40.

After the release of the self-titled album in 1983, the band took a break. Phil focusing on further projects, and a newfound side career in producing albums. Rutherford, also interested in pursuing solo interest, founded Mike and the Mechanics and began studio production of their debut album. Banks also had solo projects in the works.


You have to understand now, in 1984, the entire band was seeing Pop as the way to go. Banks had already written quite a few pop tracks for Genesis albums, seeing if they would be successful, and they were in a mild sense. Rutherford's pop tracks met with more success. Phil, bolstered by his solo career, was producing the largest hits.

Banks came out with a solo album around this time called "The Fugitive", pretty much a wall-to-wall 80s pop album. It was a flop. It was too pop even for the pop scene of THAT time.

In 1985, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford both released new pop albums. Phil with No Jacket Required, mike with "Mike + The Mechanics", self-titled.

Mike's hits were Silent Running, All I Need is a Miracle, and Taken In.

Phil hit it out of the ball park with Sussudio, One More Night, Don't Lose My Number, and Take Me Home.

And thus it was with all band members except for Mr. Banks riding high on solo careers that the band rejoined in 1986 for a new album, and their most pop-filled yet: Invisible Touch.

That album produced 5 hit singles...Genesis' first US #1 album and first US #1 single. All other hits reached #s 6-4 on the charts.

After this, and a world tour, the band once again took a break to pursue solo interests.

Rutherford in 1988 came out with The Living Years, producing the hit single "The Living Years". Collins in 1989 came out with his biggest album yet: "But Seriously", a less-pop, more depth oriented album dealing with social issues. Nevertheless, produce hits it did, and Another Day in Paradise, Do You Remember?, Something Happened on the Way to Heaven and I Wish It Would Rain Down all climbed the charts worldwide and established Collins as a permanent household name.

Rutherford went back to the studio to record the next Mechanics album, "Word of Mouth", which was released in 1991. It was a failure.

Collins went on a 1990 world tour, and afterwards took a break to deal with issues at home. Because of all the recent success of Genesis and his solo career, Collins was on the road for months, sometimes more than a year, at a time. And this was a huge strain on his marriage to Jill Collins.

Things seemingly patched up and Genesis came together once again for their 1991 album We Can't Dance. This album was nowhere near as pop-oriented as their last. Rutherford, having just been burned by the lackluster success of his solo album, was not as intent on producing hit singles at this time. Anthony Banks, who had failed to get his solo career off the ground, also found Genesis to be his best arena for musical expression. And Phil, beginning to burn out, was also more serious this time around.

We Can't Dance did have occasional quirky and humorous moments, but the overall atmosphere of the album was darker, deeper, and more serious. And marked a slight return of Genesis to their progressive roots.

That album did not produce as many hits nor did they climb as high in the charts. The moving and powerful No Son of Mine did respectable business. The evangelist-bashing Jesus He Knows Me was a moderate hit. But the stand out single was, of course. I Can't Dance, a humorous tune that reached #9, as i recall.

The rest of the album dealt with social issues, political issues and environmental issues, as well as personal. This album was far more impressive than the last.

A world tour followed in 1992. Following that, Phil's marriage began to fall apart once again. Despite earlier efforts to rekindle it, Phil, and his wife, fell out of love. A near inevitability with his time on the road taking him away for so long.


The marriage did not end immediately. Phil and his wife both started seeing other people. It was during this period that Phil met the person he would eventually marry in his later years: Orianne.

The sadness of a marriage ending returned, but this time without the anger. As Phil and Jill had both lost love for each other, the next Phil solo album, released in 1993, "Both Sides", spoke about social issues and emotional issues. Ranging from violence on the streets, to the declining morals of our children, to the end of a relationship. The emotional track "Ive Forgotten Everything" spoke specifically of how Phil and Jill lost their love for one another.

In 1994, the marriage was ended, mutually. There was no fax. The release of the album had spurned a critical backlash against Phil Collins. the album lacked any and all of the power and commercially viable guts of the previous release. This album was sad, deeply depressing, with only a smattering of tunes that could remotely fit on the charts. "Everyday" and "Both Sides of the Story" were released as singles, and met with lukewarm success. "We Wait and We Wonder" was the third single, and failed everywhere but the UK.

With an album that didn't fit the mold of what the critics believed a Phil Collins album should sound like...the press began to attack. The tabloids in the UK made up the fax story to further drive public sentiment against Phil Collins.

And no matter how the man tried to put that vicious lie to rest, the press continued with it. It got so bad that whenever the press showed up to interview collins, he'd snub them or give them the finger in disgust.

A tour in 1994 followed, and collins took a short break to recompose himself and heal. The pain of these years also caused Collins to rethink his career with Genesis, wanting to retreat to personal projects.

In 1995 he re-entered the studio. This time happier, over the loss of his wife, happy with his newfound friends, and, also, reaching a decision to end his career with Genesis. The man had simply burnt out from decades of touring and hard work, and the loss of two marriages as a result.

Collins left the band in 1995, leaving Rutherford and Banks searching for a new drummer, and a new vocalist.

In 1996, Collins released Dance Into The Light, a much happier, upbeat album, rawer album. He also experimented with different styles of composition, ranging from blues to country. It was a critical failure, but a mild success with the public. The only hit single to come out of it was the title track. Otherwise, the album was a lackluster effort of a transitional time in Phil's life where he wasn't sure of his direction.

In 1997, Genesis found two new drummers and one new vocalis. Ray Wilson would be the new front for the band. The album, Calling All Stations, released that year, would be far darker and deeper than past efforts. Banks and Rutherford were no longer interested in light pop tunes, and wanted to get back to something more meaningful.

The album was fairly good, but the critics slammed it. The same critics bashing Collins now took on Genesis for changing too much. "A Genesis without Collins is no Genesis at all" the critics exclaimed.

Promoters and radio stations in the US refused to play Genesis' new singles, Congo, Shipwrecked, Not About Us, etc. "It's not Genesis without collins" they proclaimed. And thus Genesis' singles never got the proper promotion or airplay. Basically, the beaurocracies of the US radio and promoter markets, destroyed Genesis Mk. III.

The album only reached #54 in the US as well. Utterly disheartened, Banks and Rutherford declared Genesis dead, and cancelled what remained of the American Tour. Only two dates were ever played on US soil during 1998.

After the 1997 tour of Dance into the light, Phil Collins was tapped by disney to start the score to Tarzan. By 1999, Phil's career would be rescued with new hit singles from that soundtrack and huge promotion, thanks to Disney's efforts. It was Phil's comeback.

Also, at that time, Phil married his girlfriend Orianne, she would become the 3rd Mrs. Collins, and this time, Phil was determined not to hurt this marriage by long tours and absences.

Phil had a new son, for which the "Youll Be in my Heart" lyrics were written for.

In 1998 Genesis, now disbanded, decided it was time to release a collection of long buried material, lost on the backs of singles or in recording studios. Genesis Archive #1 was released that year. the band briefly entertained the idea of a Reunion tour with Collins and Gabriel. It would have happened, but Gabriel put the kaibosh on it, saying he was uninterested in "looking backwards".

In 1999, Genesis released what they considered to be their farewell: A greatest hits album. And a new single from the band: Carpet Crawlers 1999. This track reunited all 5 original band members. But they didnt play together. They played in separate rooms, on separate days, and their parts were mixed together for the new song.

CC99, was a failure on the charts.

In 2000, Genesis Archive #2 was release, covering the years from 1976-1992.

A third archive, intended to cover 1992 to present day, was scuttled by Tony Banks, who was unhappy with the American response to the 1997 record and wanted to spare Genesis "further embarrassment".

In 2002, Collins released a new Solo album. This time recorded entirely at home, at his own personal bedroom studio. Most tracks were recorded with the aid of computers, and minimal use of session musicians.

The album was met with mixed reviews. it was a decidedly better effort than the 1996 album Dance Into The Light, but many people wanted a return of collins to his 1980s style. That was not going to occur. And then due to a viral infection, phil lost 70% of his hearing in his left ear. This scuttled any and all plans for a tour.

He had considered the idea of a brief tour, nothing on the scale of previous years, out of concern for his new marriage. The tour was written off and Phil enjoyed his home life.

In late 2003, Phil decided he would be retiring from touring indefinitely, though he would continue composing music and releasing it from his home studio.

But feeling rather guilty that his 1997 tour would be his last and that newer fans would never have the chance to see a live performance, he decided to embark on a brief world tour for 2004, doing Europe and North America.

It was called the First Final Farewell Tour...leaving the door open for a possible, future farewell tour with Genesis.

Phil began his tour in mid-2004 and played to sell-out audiences across Europe, and further dates had to be added to meet demand.

Much the same occured in America. I witnessed Phil's American tour opening date at Anaheim, CA on August 26th. Overall, Phil's tour in America alone would earn the #1 box office gross for 2004, surpassing even modern acts, as well as Sting and Bette Midler.

And with that, Phil said goodbye to touring.


Mike and the Mechanics regrouped for a new album this year. It was released only in Europe, and met with moderate success.

Tony Banks is now exploring the realm of classical music. His release, "Seven" a collection of classical compositions of his, was a big success in the classical market. It made no impact in the mainstream markets.


And Genesis fans, as Floyd fans, now sit, and wait, wondering if the band will ever reunite, and getting mixed messages all the time. All the members seem to have a non-answer for it...it's either "we're not thinking about it" or "we are thinking about it, but it's a matter of someone setting it up".

Either way, the reunion isnt happening yet and may never. And the possiblity of Gabriel returning to the band is almost as remote as Waters returning to Floyd.




so there you have it. I thought I'd speak up, because there seems to be a very widespread misconception on this board about how, exactly, Genesis became a pop band, who caused it...and, what kind of a person Phil Collins is.


There was no fax.

Phil is not singularly responsible for the change in Genesis from a progressive band to a pop band and back to a failing progressive band. The blame, actually, lies with all of them. It was rutherford, however, who instigated the change in 1981, and banks who perpetuated it at seeing the success of Collins solo records.

All of them, by 1985, became deeply involved in the pop scene especially Mike with his Mechanics releases. And therefore, it was almost inevitable, than in 1986 "Genesis" would produce a pop album.

Roger Waters, David Gilmour, et al, may not have gone the pop route on their solo albums. And, no doubt, that meant that success as a solo act was not as much a factor for them when it came to the direction of Floyd, as much as it was for Genesis.

All three members of the band, post 1978, moved gradually towards pop in their solo efforts. That was bound to have an effect on the band as a whole. And it did.

Genesis became a pop band because Genesis decided on it. It wasn't Phil tying the others to chairs in the basement and forcing their hands to compose pop tracks. No. It was a mutual decision.

I think Genesis' pop is some of the best pop around. But sure, I would have preferred if they band hadn;t gone the pop route. Because, now today, Genesis is not the type of band that you can proudly proclaim that you love to friends and family.

Pink Floyd, by virtue of staying close to their roots, IS that kind of band. They never really sold out. Genesis did sell out. so its easy to criticse.

I love both bands. They balance each other out. When I grow weary of the depth of Floyd music (everyone gets tired of a certain style after a little while), I put Genesis on. And when I grow weary of the relative thinness of Genesis compared to floyd, I come back to Floyd for a while. And so it goes. Both bands are great to me, warts and all.


I know a place where you can talk to Phil personally. Ask him a question. If you care not to believe me, and what i say here, regarding the fax, and the gradual shift of Genesis from progressive to pop, then visit this link:

www.philcollins.co.uk

Subscribe to the forums.

There, you can post a question to phil in the open forum, and if he feels like it, he will respond, and his response will be posted to the forum through the webmaster.


Please, do not be derogatory or abusive to the man if you visit that site. Ask him honestly about these things, and he will probably answer.

Likewise, at genesis-music.com, they are conducting a user poll for question to ask tony banks and mike rutherford for an upcoming interview event. If you must know if Collins is truly to blame for the pop shift, ask Tony and Mike yourselves there.



All of my info, friends, comes from interviews of all the band members.

Take it as you will. Believe me or don't. But I've given you the links to sites where you can ask the very men themselves how it really happened. But I did feel I had to speak up to defend a man that I have met and admire quite a bit. Mr. Collins is the furthest thing from arrogant, some of you would know that if you met him. I have. He could be your uncle in the way he talks to you and appreciates his fans.

And, interestingly, he's far more interested in people that don't like him, than those who do. Whereas he could just say "if they don't like me, well **** 'em", he chooses to listen and understand their reasoning why.

Take it for what it's worth.



I'm a floyd fan through and through. Floyd is the better band. But I've been a fan of Genesis longer than I've been a fan of Floyd, and i know a bit about them. Wanted to speak up. Hopefully, no one is offended or inclined to attack as a result of this thread.