The wall hammers used by hate groups

I regret to inform you that a group of neo-nazis has visited my community. They have successfully set our city back a few decades in race relations and to the realization that humans are humans period.
Unfortunately this particular group finds that using a symbol of ridicule towards exactly what they stand for, the crossed hammers from the wall, fashionable enough to use as their own.
Although it is miniscule in importance to the larger problem of race (any race) relations its very sad that now someone may see the symbol portrayed on the wall and on these people's arms and equate Pink Floyd with something it is not and something that it artistically ridicules... bigotry and hate.
-Very troubled in York, Pa.

Albatross, I pray that you and your community have been safe through this--that, of course, is the most important thing to say here.

But here is my PF related message. I am sure he knew the potential was always there for this kind of misuse...but I think Mr. Waters would be in tears to see his point missed in such a flagrant way. This truly IS sad...some people, no matter what you do to try and warn against it, will go their disgusting, evil ways. And those things meant to serve as warnings are turned instead into their weapons...as though a mockery of all those who tried to help.

"And when they've given their all
Some stagger and fall
After all, it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall."

I always felt a sense of failure at the end of that album. Perhaps it is because of the fact that, regardless of the end, something like that could happen to a person's heart. Albatross, I'm sorry you ended up seeing something like that in your community. I hope the storm passes safely.

And let this be a lesson to everyone here, about what Mr. Waters DID and DID NOT intend.

It's sad to see some sick, irrational people use a PF "trademark" to represent their madness and insanity.

Poor guys. But life will teach them.

We havent got enough time to hate people for the way they look. Racism is a sickness. And the cure lies in the eyes of the beholder. But in most cases, they refuse to get better. I feel bad for anyone who would hate someone for such reasons. I hope you and your town will survive this garbage invading your streets. Good luck and stay strong. Later.

albatross,

I was, no doubt, glad to hear that all went well across the river. That the events that occured took place without any major violence. Though, of course, I abhor the stand those people take on race differences, but in this country, we are allowed the freedom to be as ignorant as we want to be. Given the recent history of York though, it is apparent that most of this white-cloaked goons were nothing more than opportunists.

A quick history of the hammers, as I know it. A few years ago, before I got my DSOTM prism tattoo, I wanted to get the hammers done as if they were an uniform armpatch on my tricep. I was told by the tattoo artist that he couldn't do that because there is an affiliation of skinheads that use the hammers as their symbol, and if they ever saw it they would kick my ass, and I could sue him, because he knew that doing the tattoo would lead to an inevitable asskicking.
After talking to my brother, who was a skinhead in his high school years (a phase he has since, thankfully, outgrown). He told me that a band, he didn't mention their name, began using it in the mid-80s, and they claimed to have never seen The Wall but that the hammers were their creation and represented white-power.

In the commentary that accompanied the DVD of The Wall, Waters and Scarfe both admitted that one of their fears was that people would not realise that the neo-Nazi scenes were in fact satire. They gave no mention of the fact that someone had been using the Hammers as a vehicle for the "white-power" message. I just figured that they either didn't know, or didn't want to give credibilty to such people.

Anyway, we here in Lancaster hope that your community soon heals, and is able to get back to normal soon.

I hate it when imagery from a band is used unwisely, especially in such a war-zone area like race relations. Not only is fuel added to the fire of race hate but the meaning of the entire album is completely misunderstood.

The crossed hammers do not stand for white supremacy but sadly they closely resemble the nazi swastika while not being a swastika. This abuse of a sign that had nothing to do with white supremacy should not be allowed. Personally anyone using this symbol for this purpose should be shot, preferably against a wall. An appropriate end for them I think.

'If I had my way, I'd have all of you SHOT!!!'

Of course, we cannot become what we hate, Loupgaros--but I get what you are saying. It's sickening. Any PF fan knows this is the opposite of what this was meant to be. The crossed hammers were created as part of a WARNING about such behaviour, and why it is so WRONG. "Waiting for the Worms" is so twisted...because it is meant to make us think, wait a minute! This is wrong--he shouldn't be doing this! It's a sign of how Pink's heart has been destroyed. It is something to be avoided.

If I were Mr. Waters...I might almost want to force them to stop it. I mean, you might even be able to consider it some kind of defamation, though I'm not a lawyer and couldn't tell you if that's the case.

I'm sure along the line somewhere Roger must have copyrighted it, or something like that. But maybe that might not be enough.

Who knows? I would think it MIGHT be, especially because of the association of this symbol with something for which Mr. Waters did not intend and would NEVER grant permission for. Are there any precedents for anyone regaining control over a symbol like that?

There is a dangerous power in symbols. To make many people who are not fully aware of The Wall and its implications believe it is a hate symbol essentially is defamation against Mr. Waters. There COULD be a case there...but I am not a lawyer, and I've no idea.

You've got a point FloydWright. I didn't mean to put it across like that but I feel very strongly about these matters. As far as I'm concerned, The Wall is a great album and the use of the symbols supports its message, and that is how it should be regarded.

Personally I think this group is using this particular symbol cos it is accessible to most people, even those who are not PF fans.

Part of me still wants them rounded up and shot,though.

I did understand your point, and agree about the dangerous power in symbols; I don't want you to believe I think you're some sick, cruel person.

I just wanted to be careful, in this kind of thread; that's all.

With threads like these you have to be careful. You never know how much people will read into them.

Agreed.

Figures that the dumb racist bastards in Pennsylvannia (my home state) would be the morons who decide to use the marching hammers. Do they not realize they are part of what Roger was/is/forever will be pissed off at, what IDIOT'S!

It is sad that they take symbols that have nothing to do with hate and make them into their propaganda and symbols of identification. The swastika was a native american symbol that they decided to steal, and now it has a horribly negative connotation, to something that was originally religous. Just sick, I hope Roger is made aware of this and get pissed at them and yells at them or something like that!

Oh...I always thought the swastika was a symbol from India...I remember actually seeing it used that way (as a religious symbol) by some dancers from India.

Or it could be both...?