The Hip Hop Thread

[DeathTöngue]

Originally Posted by Sydney

oh come ON!

Read the wording in that article..

Hm. The relevant part of the article, to me, is the Sheriff's statement that the music "absolutely" had something to do with it. However, I file that as his opinion, not a provable fact.

I find the arguments on both sides of the issue (Does rap=violence?) to be somewhat, well, specious. There isn't any doubt that rap's roots are in the inner cities, and when we argue that it has "african rhythms" and the like, I think that it's a good chance to take a step back and consider that Africa is a continent, with hundreds of cultures ranging from the European to Arabic and a bazillion tribal cultures - there's no such thing as 'african rhythms', it's too general. Bushmen and Zulus might as well be from different planets.

It's equally ridiculous to attempt to classify all rap music as violent - there is too much diversity in the genre. But it's also insane to ignore the bits that are - I find the attitude of 2 Live Crew toward women offensive, and I remember the body count from the so-called 'East-West' conflicts as well.

Is rap african? No. Is rap violent? Sometimes. Is rap sexist? Sometimes.

The real question is whether or not it's worth listening to - and that's subjective, and has to be evaluated by the individual listener on a case by case basis.

To illustrate this more clearly, try substituting the name of any other genre for 'hip-hop' or 'rap'. Just how foolish the proposition really is becomes clear when one attempts to apply these generalizations to, say, classical music.

Classical music is violent? Not the Blue Danube or the Pastorale - but the 1812 Overture sure is.

[stratman]

Originally Posted by Sydney

Hahaha, that article is so laughable.

I have read so many identical to it over the yrs about punk and any other form of violent music. Please.. come back with something better. The authorities don't want to blame bad parenting or lack of funding in schools or any of that stuff so why not blame it on the music kids listen to?

Three words: Right Wing Newspaper.

If you've "read so many identical to it over the years", maybe it IS a factor?

You are right about one thing, bad parenting. Or more accurately, NO parenting. In the US, the black family unit has been pretty much destroyed by socialist welfare programs which have replaced the father in black families over the course of the last 40 years, starting with LBJ's "Great Society". Something like 80% of black children born in urban ghettos nowadays are to unmarried women. These children grow up without a good male role model. Instead, they have the rappers, drug dealers, pimps & whores to emulate.
So that segment of the black population sadly continues its socieo-economic death spiral into the sewer. And so it goes.

Here in the US, there is no "lack of funding" for schools. It's the NEA that has ruined public education.

The Richmond Times Dispatch is not a "right wing newspaper". Their newstories tend to be from left-of-center, and their editorial pages tend to be right-of-center.
This story is from their "news" dept.

[Not Now John]

Originally Posted by GeraldTheMouse

I think it's a logical argument that perhaps those who think all of rap sounds the same ought to think about it a little harder.

I meant more that you can't counter an absurd argument by comparing them to another absurd argument. I totally agree with you, I am just saying it is not an effective means to argue.

[GeraldTheMouse]

Originally Posted by stratman

In the US, the black family unit has been pretty much destroyed by socialist welfare programs which have replaced the father in black families over the course of the last 40 years, starting with LBJ's "Great Society".

Man, I really wanted to watch my kids grow up and be there to support my family, but I've been replaced by socialist welfare programs! Oh well, I guess I've no choice but to disproportionately fill the prisons.

[stchrissie]

Originally Posted by GeraldTheMouse

Man, I really wanted to watch my kids grow up and be there to support my family, but I've been replaced by socialist welfare programs! Oh well, I guess I've no choice but to disproportionately fill the prisons.

[Frank Zappa]

To me Hip Hop and Rap are two different animals. Rap is the shit that they play on MTV and BET and whatever, while Hip Hop has well thought out lyrics. MF Doom?

[Bride of a Bull]

Originally Posted by stratman

...
You are right about one thing, bad parenting. Or more accurately, NO parenting. In the US, the black family unit has been pretty much destroyed by socialist welfare programs which have replaced the father in black families over the course of the last 40 years, starting with LBJ's "Great Society". Something like 80% of black children born in urban ghettos nowadays are to unmarried women. These children grow up without a good male role model. Instead, they have the rappers, drug dealers, pimps & whores to emulate.
So that segment of the black population sadly continues its socieo-economic death spiral into the sewer. And so it goes.
...

Sorry stratters, but this is grossly over-generalised bullshit at best, and complete and utter scapegoating of the Left at worst.

Black families still exist and contain plenty of respectable male role models, in spite of totally inadequate welfare programs and LBJ (? - 40 years on and LBJ is still the culprit? Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush had no input since?). Stop hammering on about how left-wingers are totally at fault; people of all shades and flavours in society bear responsibility for themselves and each other.

I come from a family, and neighbourhood, in the main, which exchews reliance on social welfare, too proud to even stoop to accepting charity and, although as dysfunctional as any other nulcear-age, 20th-century family, with a very strong male role model. Most other black families in my community shared such principles, including, and often especially, the single-mother families which were not necessarily doomed for the sewer.

Blaming the poor and poverty won't necessarily wash either since they are often the most conservative, traditional and education-oriented people you could find. Intelligent humans would not want to exist this way forever, and often strive for personal and collective improvement. Of course, if you ARE poor, it is obviously easier to blame one's bad behaviour on such a condition rather than an easy and selfish escape into irresponsibility and crime.

I do get where you're coming from, stratters, but black families are alive and kicking, with the majority probably sharing your values, morals and aspirations: to live a good and prosperous life and to provide as well but preferrably much better for your progeny. And "urban ghettoes" and single mothers should also not be made the demon of the piece. These labels and stereotyping is not healthy for any reasonable discussion.

80%, you say? I reach for my copy of Freakonomics when I hear such statistics now.

Over and out,
Byron

[rogerwaters1741]

Originally Posted by Sydney

Pardon me then, I assumed you were being an ass and trying to prove that rap/hip hop is only about violence etc and a load of drivel.

Gnarls Barkley, incidentally are awesome.

I do not want to get in a pissing contest with SYDNEY about the merits of the lyrics of this music genre...WHEN she got finished with me I would end up like Mel Gibson/William Wallace at the end of Braveheart...

I stand by my original premise...my problem is NOT so much with the music,but,WITH the people who make it...


don't you think it's not a coincidence that most of people who make RAP music have a RAP sheet...

[Frank Zappa]

Originally Posted by rogerwaters1741

don't you think it's not a coincidence that most of people who make RAP music have a RAP sheet...

That's a rather ignorant statement, isn't it? Of course unless you have statistics to back this up....didn't think so.

[stchrissie]

Gnarls Barkley makes me want to rip my ears off... so I suppose it does in some cases insite violence.

[AnimalInTheWall]

Originally Posted by rogerwaters1741

I do not want to get in a pissing contest with SYDNEY

It could be fun.

I'd watch.

[Axe victim]

And there's a half a dozen germans here who also want to take part in your shower party!

[Sydney]

Originally Posted by rogerwaters1741

I do not want to get in a pissing contest with SYDNEY about the merits of the lyrics of this music genre...WHEN she got finished with me I would end up like Mel Gibson/William Wallace at the end of Braveheart...

I stand by my original premise...my problem is NOT so much with the music,but,WITH the people who make it...


don't you think it's not a coincidence that most of people who make RAP music have a RAP sheet...

Pardon my Australian ignorance, but a WHAT sheet?

PS Frank Zappa, I could kiss you. The statement about hip hop and rap could not be more true. So, from here on in, let us talk about hip hop and not rap. (Although technically rap is in fact merely the lyrical/vocal form as opposed to the musical form, but these are technicallities we shall ignore. In reality, rap is an integral part of hip hop, but you get the idea.)

merci

[Not Now John]

Originally Posted by Sydney

Pardon my Australian ignorance, but a WHAT sheet?

Criminal record is sometimes called a rap sheet.

[Sydney]

arrrghhhhhhh!!!!!

MOST people who make rap music have a rap sheet!!

THE IGNORANCE astounds me.. it really does.