In the Flesh DVD Jon Carin

well if it didn't?

You're wrong.

The house David donated was, in fact, sold for 6 million Pounds sterling which is well in excess of 6 million dollars. About 3 or 4 million dollars short. And this ain't chicken feed we're talking about either.

I know this is mere pedantics, but since there has been absolutely nothing new stated on this thread, I thought I'd inject some facts.

That's not how it was! Maybe according to Roger it is, but not Dave. Dave on numerous interviews said that Roger became OVERBAREING on The Wall and especially THE FINAL CUT, forcing only HIS OWN input creatively and NOT allowing the other members to interfere with Roger's work. David also said that The Final Cut was just a complilation of old "The Wall" demos that didn't make it into the Final Draft of The Wall...(after listening to The Final Cut I can see why)
Also, what 10 other people? Do you count 10? Personally, I would take Ezrin's, Moore's, & Samson's writing help any day of the week! I think it's smart of PINK FLOYD to utilize other people's creativity to help them fine tune a few songs to what they ALREADY invision as what they want them to be. It proves that they're not all stuck on themselves. Besides, most of the songs on The Division Bell were Gilmour/Wright! And that record reminises Obscured by Clouds and Meddle and Floyd of old much more so than the The Final Cut....

That's because they were TRYING to sound like old floyd. Product for a target audience.
Did Waters force them by gunpoint or blackmail or what? Did he threaten to beat up Rick Wright? Where are all those great songs Gilmour couldn't get on the Wall? Did he release them? I love Gilmours' guitar playing but if Waters had left overs from the Wall and made an album out of them than surely Gilmour had a whole lot of songs he could have put out that didn't get used on the Wall. Where are all his brilliant ideas from that period? His solo albums? Comfortably numb would be an instrumental with a different title. If Gilmour was forced to do as he was told on the Wall than he should have had a solo record out in '81. He should have proved his point with a stellar album. There is a reason he only put out 2 albums in 20 years and needed a bunch of writers to help. Give Waters a break and I wont sound like I'm bashing Gilmour. About Face is not much better than the final cut. I don't think it's better at all. But what do I know?

They were trying to sound like Pink Floyd? THEY ARE PINK FLOYD!!!! How can they TRY to sound like them? That makes no sense to me, I'm not saying it doesn't make sense to you or someone else, but it certainly doesn't to me. If Billy Joel or Frank Sinatra have help writing a tune, is it not Billy Joel or Frank Sinatra? There is no shame in admitting soliciting help for lyrics, because Roger was the driving force behind the lyrics, but I would hardly call it Immitated lyrics, it sounds nothing like lyrics that Roger would write, and that's ok cause he didn't write them! However the musice on Lapse of Reason and Division Bell sounds like Floyd, cause it is Floyd! Roger was the bass player, not the whole band guys! I understand that there are plenty of Roger Waters fans out there, and I am one of them, however, he is not Pink Floyd--nor was he ever! He's a band member who left--just like Barrett--although the reasons were much different. Gilmour having solo projects from The Wall?? Please! The Wall was Waters' baby--and he let all the OTHER 3 members know it! If Dave had any solo stuff from The Wall, I'm sure he WOULDN'T use it! --God knows I wouldn't if I were him. Whatever Dave had written for The Wall, he showed to Roger--if Roger didn't like it, Dave just forgot about it I'm sure of it! I personally think About Face was excellent, and MILES better than The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking. However, About Face was a solo project and sounded like a Gilmour solo project! Division Bell and Lapse of Reason sounded like Floyd to me! Call it fake or a Forgery as Waters so eloquently put it in 1987, but the bottom line is, it's Pink Floyd! It consisted of Wright, Gilmour and Mason, and that's a whole lot more like Pink Floyd than The Final Cut was! I applaud them for trying to sound like Pink Floyd, cause that's who they are! And both of those records (Lapse and Division Bell) are 2 of my absolute favorite Floyd records ever!

As always, the vehemence and enthusiasm of our new-found APFFN members is something to behold, and Arnold Layne certainly hasn't let us down this time either.


Shame to say, though, that here at least, this is a well worn, well travelled path which for the rest of us, has to be put down to "to each there own" and for Arnold Layne to accept that opinions differ as widely as the number of members here.

I am personally in the "There is NO Pink Floyd without Roger...and he is not Pink Floyd without Rick, Nick and David either" camp. I personally don't rate AMLOR nor TDB as Pink Floyd albums, and I'm a HUGE Gilmour fan btw; but really they're just examples of David's masterful selection of seasoned musicians, including two former PF members. Way hey! Of course, I grudgingly accept that this claim could also be levelled at Roger with THE WALL and TFC, and the latter really pissed me off when issued.

It may say "Pink Floyd" on the box, but it ain't Pink Floyd inside, IMHO. Sure, it may be better than most other crap issued in the same period, but Pink Floyd?

I know in my water that there will be those who disagree with me, some violently, but do I care? I do not. Take a chill pill. Enjoy what you like and I'll enjoy mine.

Peas,
Byron

Lapse is NOT a Pink Floyd album. It was carefully engineered by Ezrin and Gilmour to sound like the Floyd after a CBS record executive complained that the work-in-progress didn't sound like the Floyd.

Nick Mason is given credit for the drums on this album when in fact Jim Keltner and Carmine Appice played all of the drum parts except for Mason's incidental tom-tom doodlings on tracks 3-6. Other than that, Mason contributed a few sound effects to Signs of Life, Learning to Fly and Sorrow. That's it. That's all he did.

Rick wasn't even brought back in until the final mixing stage of the album, where he added last-minute incidentals to just THREE tracks (organ on Dogs of War, piano on Terminal Frost, and Kurzweil on Sorrow). Even then, he was salaried, just like on The Wall tours.

And yet, they get top billing for their minimal contributions. Why? Because "this is a Pink Floyd album." Gilmour could have easily had these parts done by the team that did the rest of the album, or even left them out entirely. But he had to strengthen his position in the court battle with Roger, so he let Nick hang around Astoria while he was making his solo album and brought Rick in for a few days at £11 000.

And suddenly it's a Pink Floyd record? No sir. No more than The Final Cut is.

I disagree with you Botley! However, your avatar rules!

I'm glad someone is sure about something


You make Gilmour sound like he has such low self esteem.
Did he put Waters in the position of always having the last word?
He just forgets his music if Roger doesn't like it?


Botley gave you some facts. You disagreed but you like his bearded lady avatar. {sigh} We all believe what we want to believe.

Low self-esteem? Dave Gilmour? Because he just took a mellow stance with Roger's production frenzy of The Wall? Are we reading the same posts Sarah? Dave doesn't seem like the Dictator type, Roger does in my opinion. How do I arrive at this conclusion?--from the various books I have read about the band and interviews of each that I have watched. Does it make it fact? No. Not like Botley's facts about Rick's salary--however, do do we really know how much Dave paid Rick? Are you 100% sure? Really? I am 100% sure that Rick, Nick and Dave make-up Pink Floyd on Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Divison Bell! Yes Sarah, I am sure! And guess what, it's a fact! And am I sure that AMLOR and TDB are really Pink Floyd albums? Gee, yeah, I mean, it says Pink Floyd on the label--don't it? Guess what, that's a fact also! I really can care less what Rick's salary was--what is the relevance--except trying to prove a point that Roger is Pink Floyd and Doggonit, Rick, Dave, and Nick aren't! Hey whatever! If you are going to use the analogy of justifying your position by utilizing fact, then you lose! Cause the fact is that Pink Floyd is down to three main members in that of Dave, Nick, and Rick. Your arguments is that they are not really Pink Floyd, and that they are an abomination for attempting to forge Floyd-like records. Please, according to the courts, legally, the fact is, those 3 ARE Pink Floyd like it or not! Just read the labels on AMLOR and TDB. So if you want fact, that's fact! In my opinion, Floyd is better without Waters right now until he changes his high-horse attitude towards the others. Am I sure of that? Yeah, I am, cause that's my opinion. It is comforting to know that someone is SURE about something! Good day

Arnold Layme,

Yeah and OJ Simpson is innocent.

I never trust labels.

you called him arnold layme.

I can see my attempt at posting a calming, resolving post has failed and has had no effect on this heated, yet pointless discussion.

Fact 1: Nobody is likely to change Arnold Layne's opinions.

Fact 2: Arnold Layne is not likely to change anybody else's opinions.

Fact 3: This discussion has been done, re-done and overdone.

Fact 4: BoaB is highly entertained by the futility of it all.

Pees,
Byron